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Plz Mirror back, sup sniper rifle, 9mm machine pistol back

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Mosquito

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Post Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:43 pm

Plz Mirror back, sup sniper rifle, 9mm machine pistol back

I really do not understand, why u removed mirror from the server.. All special forces use that technology, but modern days 1, maybe except very cheap spec forses in countries like Nigeria, Sudan, .. Why da hell go stupidly showing yourself to sus not knowing what is behind the entering door, endangering yourself, team, civs, mission goals, so on, if u can mirror the room, get info from it, and then take smart decision to act, taking upper hand over sus, or just wedge the door if what u ve seen in mirror didnt like u and u dont want to enter and engender team so on.. not talking, that sus can be in front, left, right, and nomater where u would stay, they will shoot on door opening, killing teammembers. Damn, why i should explain it all to you, "ELITE tactical squad"? ... U should by yourself understand why all spec forses use such optic room/corner so on scanning technology, and they use it it all the time, especially S.W.A.T. ... Removing it it is really goofy on my decision.
If team lieder do not want team to use mirror - he/she/it can say to not take it or not use it, when another, more smarter leader will want to be more smarter and want his team be safe, so he/she will use it. It is up to leader decision, why to remove it from server at all? By removing the mirror from server u removed also smartness and tactical upper hand over sus in that game (in at all a lot of unrealistic and stupidity game naming itself "swat4")
Some1 can say "it slow the game".. - if u use voice (TS or voip, so on), it is not problem, also u can give it to good user of it, who will be using it fast and properly. It is same as with guns - some 1 is good with it, some 1 not, but guns are harder, and mirror are easy to use, every1 can..

Addition to that, i also do not understand, why u removed suppressed sniper rifle and 9mm machine pistol? It is, actually, good combination - suppressed sniper 4 accurate quiet kills, 9mm machine pistol 4 close combat with many sus, tried it many times, work good, ofcourse, m4 is full auto and faster, but sniper is suppressed, maybe 4 player only sound enjoyment, but i like quiet. Also power of suppressed sniper is good, for armored sus - 1 shot - 1 kill, for not armored 2-1 shots - kill. Short 9mm machine pistol good to combine with slow firing long sniper for close room spaces or many sus case.
...
Mirror removing is total downside..

So, ask to you - plz, esteemed ETS, if you could be so kind and reasonable, plz, give us back mirror, suppressed sniper, 9mm machine pistol. Thanks in advance. Good luck to good people.

P.S. what is good of removing from server, it is removing less lethal toys (pepper ball toy, LL shotgun toy ), want to say thanks 4 that, lol, pepper ball on armored armed sus.., people in reality even with torn apart legs can fight some time after injury, and in that stupid game some pepper ball or LL shotgun do armored vested armed many sus to comply.. lol. or small needles from tazer penetrate BULLET PROOF vests, that is also another lol.. so on.
Thank you for banning that less lethal sht from server.
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Accuser

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Post Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:26 pm

Re: Plz Mirror back, sup sniper rifle, 9mm machine pistol ba

Howdy Mosquito,

Unfortunately we have removed the optiwand from our server because we use the scanning technique and here are a few reasons why;

1. Scanning allows officers in game to get a good perspective in front of them to assess the dangers that may lurk so from an officers view it allows more ground to be covered.

2. We have additional scans that can be beneficial, Such as the T scan when scanning hallways that have a 3 way junction one left, one right and the one you came up on the pathway, Around the corner with a buddy sort of scan (forgot the shorten name lol) but its a scan where two officers check around the corner providing covering fire from the officer that is crouching as well as the officer standing, There is an additional scan I like to call it 'Criss cross scan' where two officers one on each side opens a double door and goes from one side to another, being one officer crouching and one officer standing. These types of scans allow more diverse way of checking behind the door and also allows more precise locations of sus, civs, bombs etc etc.

3. Optiwand to us I believe has limited range and reach to discovering whats behind the door, as everyone knows the little pointy thing cant extend it self to reach like the end of a stairs or deep into a room for example when at a door

So We use the Scanning technique to ensure safety of officers and the well being of suspects

So in terms of what I'm saying we will not unlock the optiwand unless if its necessary then Yes we can unlock it to use but for now use the scanning technique.

If you wish to learn more about the scanning techniques then do ask a member or a regular to teach you im sure they will be willing to help

Accuser

P.S for weapons we restrict them cause they are not useful in vanilla maps standard weapons are suffice but we do use those weapons you specified on custom maps to add a bit more fun, if you have more questions then do reply
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Hellpatrol

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Post Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:45 pm

Re: Plz Mirror back, sup sniper rifle, 9mm machine pistol ba

What Accuser said. In addition, I don't really get why you want the Tec-9 back in the game? We've got the 9mm MP5 (silenced and loud variant) and the .45 UMP submachineguns available which are in my book a lot better than the Tec-9 since they're more accurate, have less recoil and for the .45, it's also more powerful than a 9mm.
About the "sniper rifle" (more a scoped assault rifle to me), it's nice for some custom maps where you need to shoot over long distances (it's not as accurate as I'd like it though), however on SWAT 4's standard maps most confrontations take place at close range which simply don't require using the rifle. Also, the Tec-9 comes as a secondary gun - but a lot of ppl here prefer a taser as their secondary to deal with uncooperative civilians (we could use pepper ofc, but that sacrifices space for a nade), hence you need a gun for room clearing as your primary.

You can ofc, if you're leading, ask any admin (Sgt and higher) to unlock the replacements so they become available for the respective round.

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TaskForce

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Post Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:03 pm

Re: Plz Mirror back, sup sniper rifle, 9mm machine pistol ba

Accuser wrote:Howdy Mosquito,

Unfortunately we have removed the optiwand from our server because we use the scanning technique and here are a few reasons why;

1. Scanning allows officers in game to get a good perspective in front of them to assess the dangers that may lurk so from an officers view it allows more ground to be covered.

2. We have additional scans that can be beneficial, Such as the T scan when scanning hallways that have a 3 way junction one left, one right and the one you came up on the pathway, Around the corner with a buddy sort of scan (forgot the shorten name lol) but its a scan where two officers check around the corner providing covering fire from the officer that is crouching as well as the officer standing, There is an additional scan I like to call it 'Criss cross scan' where two officers one on each side opens a double door and goes from one side to another, being one officer crouching and one officer standing. These types of scans allow more diverse way of checking behind the door and also allows more precise locations of sus, civs, bombs etc etc.

3. Optiwand to us I believe has limited range and reach to discovering whats behind the door, as everyone knows the little pointy thing cant extend it self to reach like the end of a stairs or deep into a room for example when at a door

So We use the Scanning technique to ensure safety of officers and the well being of suspects

So in terms of what I'm saying we will not unlock the optiwand unless if its necessary then Yes we can unlock it to use but for now use the scanning technique.

If you wish to learn more about the scanning techniques then do ask a member or a regular to teach you im sure they will be willing to help

Accuser

P.S for weapons we restrict them cause they are not useful in vanilla maps standard weapons are suffice but we do use those weapons you specified on custom maps to add a bit more fun, if you have more questions then do reply


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Hunter

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Post Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:32 pm

Re: Plz Mirror back, sup sniper rifle, 9mm machine pistol ba

What is pro about using an optiwand? This thing does not even exist in real life. While I agree with you that "modern" tactical squads are using similar technologies, it does not mean they do scan every corner and every door they want to go in. That is plain crap also.
ETS is around for many years and we had good reasons to remove optiwand from our servers. It simply fits our style of gameplay. If you are having difficulty surviving without that, then I don't think "elite" and "pro" is something you should write in uppercase. Scan is way faster, more realistic and safer if used correctly. In fact, moving from optiwand to scanning took some time and development in tactics in general. We didn't simply decide "let's disallow this". As the time went, we were only more confident about removing it.
If you are up for it, you can join our training session so it might be less struggle for you while coping with our restrictions. I believe you will like it once you find the feel for it. If we really had such concerns about optiwand, we would have put it back much earlier.

As for sniper rifle, I agree that this thing migth be useful - but not in vanilla maps. I can remember only rambos and non-professional players taking this in vanillas. It was one more reason for it to be removed. Tec-9 is more of a counter-strike style imo. I do not mind allowing that one, but I can't really see a reason for that. If there is a need for this gun, it can be allowed by in-game administrator; yet, name situation where it is needed.
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GenuineJellyfish

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Post Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:40 pm

Re: Plz Mirror back, sup sniper rifle, 9mm machine pistol ba

Well now that the optiwand and scanning is dealt with, I guess I will elaborate on the 9mm Machine Pistol (Tec-9).

Like Justicar said, many people decide to use a taser instead, but for those of us that use pistols, I believe that the 9mm machine pistol is not always a good choice. The main aspect of a sidearm, is to serve as a backup to the main rifle that the officer is using. While the semi-auto pistols do a good job of being a reliable choice, the 9mm machine pistol is simply too inaccurate to reliably use in a hostage situation.

Experienced players may be able to control the recoil of the machine pistol, but if there is a suspect near a hostage, it does not matter if the player is experienced or not, it is very inaccurate when on-the-move and when firing in full-auto. Now, place this pistol in the hands of a new player, who does not know the mechanics of SWAT 4 very well, and you can imagine the outcome. The semi-auto pistols are almost always a better choice.

Now in fairness, the 9mm machine pistol is devastating, it can kill a suspect very quickly in close quarters. But there is few situations where you will approach a suspect in close quarters alone, with no hostage. Therefore, it is not a reliable or safe option.

So yeah, feel free to argue what I have said. Willing to debate here. :)
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xyzzy

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Post Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:23 pm

Re: Plz Mirror back, sup sniper rifle, 9mm machine pistol ba

I share the opinion of people above. I'm satisfied with how things are now in the server. Optiwand slows down action considerably, it's generally useless in most cases, it leads to chaos as most of the new players would like to take it even without order and it makes the game way too easy. I could only agree to use Optiwand in case of small teams i.e. 2 people only but even in this case you are especially in need of nades so using one of tactical eq slots for Optiwand may not be the best idea.

With sniper rifles and 9mm machine pistol as well as LMG which is restricted too it's an easy case. They are not meant to be used in COOP mode. It's similar to why people are not using Sting grenades in COOP (impractical, not as effective as FB & CS, reduce points for harmed civilians, it's easy to get penalties for hurting your teammates, if deployed incorrectly it can disable the whole entry team for ~6-7 seconds or so, exposing you and your team to danger).

Sniper rifle is generally useless in COOP (but quite useful in VS modes), it's hard to get legal kills with it, it's just impractical, although I agree it might come in handy on custom maps from time to time but as far as vanilla maps are concerned, the fact stays.

I see no reason why anyone who calls himself experienced tactical player would like to play seriously using 9mm machine pistol. It's the least accurate weapon in the game and it doesn't even have high stopping power. Try using it with accuracy penalty, it's impossible, you will fail at almost every hostage situation in game.

There's a lot of weapons you can choose from and all of them are better choices than restricted content. Personally, I'm only using .45 SMG & 9mm pistol (maybe cobra tazer from time to time) as I find this set to be the most effective in every situation (even on long ranges).
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Mosquito

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Post Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Plz Mirror back, sup sniper rifle, 9mm machine pistol ba

Accuser wrote:Howdy Mosquito,

Unfortunately we have removed the optiwand from our server because we use the scanning technique and here are a few reasons why;

1. Scanning allows officers in game to get a good perspective in front of them to assess the dangers that may lurk so from an officers view it allows more ground to be covered.

2. We have additional scans that can be beneficial, Such as the T scan when scanning hallways that have a 3 way junction one left, one right and the one you came up on the pathway, Around the corner with a buddy sort of scan (forgot the shorten name lol) but its a scan where two officers check around the corner providing covering fire from the officer that is crouching as well as the officer standing, There is an additional scan I like to call it 'Criss cross scan' where two officers one on each side opens a double door and goes from one side to another, being one officer crouching and one officer standing. These types of scans allow more diverse way of checking behind the door and also allows more precise locations of sus, civs, bombs etc etc.

3. Optiwand to us I believe has limited range and reach to discovering whats behind the door, as everyone knows the little pointy thing cant extend it self to reach like the end of a stairs or deep into a room for example when at a door

So We use the Scanning technique to ensure safety of officers and the well being of suspects

So in terms of what I'm saying we will not unlock the optiwand unless if its necessary then Yes we can unlock it to use but for now use the scanning technique.

If you wish to learn more about the scanning techniques then do ask a member or a regular to teach you im sure they will be willing to help

Accuser

P.S for weapons we restrict them cause they are not useful in vanilla maps standard weapons are suffice but we do use those weapons you specified on custom maps to add a bit more fun, if you have more questions then do reply


I know about that scanning method good. Doing that before mirroriring room, u get yourself shown to sus and to all danger in there blindly, while do not knowing what is waiting 4 you behind the door, there can be a sus party waiting 4 u just to open the damn door to blow fire on you from everywhere, there can be civ near door, and already triggered sus, who will fire when door itself open, killing civs, failing mission, or c2 on that door not knowing what is behind can lead in civ killing ot unathorised sus incap, so on, there can be..... all da fking bad things, which u can avoid just to getting damn room mirrored, thus getting info about what is in there, do not endangering to trigger all badness out there in same time and do not exposing yourself, and if there is bad situation, u can go from another door/direction or at least take more smart and knowlegefull decision, not blind. Scanning method provoking conflict situation, put all danger herebefore writted in action, so on, he, well, even just 1 damn placing(stacking) near door, i saw many times ets player taking stacking themselves blindly on 1 side of the door, opening door, boom, killed, cause of trigered sus blind fire from opposite side to side where officers placed themselves.. if room would be mirrored, they would took another side, and would be alive and sound on door opening.. u are .. damn, i cant believe u are do not getting what i am saying,..... "elite" ugu.., dead in reality in seconds. Damn, u also CAN NOT see all with scan also, cause u restricted to possible officer view, to walls, corner so on, when with tool u can see much more not showing yourself to threat. I damn got 1 day my part of a team killed cause of that fking blind scan, cause they scanned good, no other way to scan from other direction to that room was possible without again place yourself on blind scan/enter, it looked clear, guys was pro, but their vision as officers was restricted physically to as human (player) FOV, to see more and far officer need move in da room, so expose himself, so get hit/killed, thats what happened, they came in room, died in sec cause of ambush there in blind for officer FOV spots, when with mirror we would 4 sure shave seen that, and would for sure avoid that. I WOULD NEVER SEND THEM there, if i have mirror and saw all in there, i would go from other directions, so on. Without mirror u are blind as mole, scanning is 1) restricted to officer view 2) provoke/trigger all bad behind the door on opening/seeing officer by sus there.

Why da hell we should blindly as damn moles go in hell and endanger every1/everything if it IS damn 21 century, different technological tools exist to easy and smarten your life? Or u want to feel yourself being in 11 century and put in there all other? Is it goal of ETS? Then change then also guns on bow and arrows, swords, and go gallop on horse on sus..

Scan should be ADDITION to mirror, if leader decide provoke/trigger conflict by doing that, but not sole mean.

And again, if some leader do not want/like/so on using mirror and prefer to be blind mole, have his/her/it info about the innerness(insideness) of the room cut by FOV of the officers, prefer endanger his team and civs and mission so on by blindly opening door not having info what is behind it, he can just not take it(mirror) 4 the team, or do not use it while in game, why the hell ban it 4 all other (more smarter, more caring 4 teammembers health and lives and no bad surprise wanting leaders)? ....

Not talking about at all stupidity "do not lean".. common? Are u specially trying to do as much danger to me and team in there? We damn HUGE DAMN TARGET over there if we go full body, u show most part of your body to threat, and in most cases if more then 1 sus are there and they react on u, u are problematic to fast hide back to cover while being full body, u need more time 4 that instead of lean, so u got hit/killed.. When lean - u are small target there, much less of your body exposed, and u can at once/instantly hide yourself back to cover.
And so on ets "elite" tactic (that like mostly will get u harmed/killed)..

Really, guys, i dont see in that mirror removing and full body exposing to threat nor any tactical smartness, nor advance, nor special forces realistic tactic, nor at all sensibleness. U only do us go back to era of dinosaurus by technology and by mental process doing that, and remove all smartness and common sensibleness...

About guns - again do not understand why u remove some lethal weapons? If u solely do not like some guns and prefer instead of, 4 example, .45 pistol 9 mm pistol, why u ban that .45 for all other? It is like "i like chocolate icecream, not vanilla, so i ban all vanilla 4 all." ...
...
Last edited by Mosquito on Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:47 am, edited 10 times in total.
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GenuineJellyfish

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Post Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:40 pm

Re: Plz Mirror back, sup sniper rifle, 9mm machine pistol ba

Mosquito wrote:Why da hell we should blindly as damn moles go in hell and endanger every1/everything if it IS damn 21 century, different technological tools exist to easy and smarten your life? Or u want to feel yourself being in 11 century and put in there all other? Is it goal of ETS? Then change then also guns on bow and archers, swords, and go gallopom on horse on sus..

Really, guys, i dont see in that mirror removing and full body exposing to threat nor any tactical smartness, nor advance, nor special forces realistic tactic, nor at all sensibleness. U only do us go back to era of dinosaurus by technology and by mental process doing that, and remove all smartness and common sensibleness...
...


I do not understand why you think scanning is an old/useless and dangerous technique. Watch this please : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj_bzKnWCKk
You can see that scanning is a very safe and effective technique, you can not always depend on technology to save your life in every situation. In the case of the optiwand, it is deployed at the bottom of the door. If there are ANY obstacles/furnature infront of the door (or anywhere in the room) you will not be able to see over the object. Thus you could report that the room is clear when it is not.

When scanning, when done correctly - you will see the contents of the room slowly, and at eye-level, so when you enter the room, nobody will be "as blind as a mole". And ontop of that, NOBODY BUT THE SCANNER is "endangered", and how vulnerable the scanner is based on how skilled that person is. Obviously there is the problem of what is behind the door, in a real situation, the door would open all the way, as you can see in the video and then you can see the whole room. But in SWAT4 the door is stopped to the left or right. There is nothing we can do about that, but almost 80% of the room is visible, which is more than enough to make a safe call on how to proceed.

As for opening doors/threatened suspects/e.t.c. - ETS members are trained to throw flashbangs whenever there is a suspect present. Audio clues will let us know if a hostage situation is happening and we can act very quickly to the situation. I don't recall many times when opening a door made us lose a mission...

Kind of a rushed reply I'm sorry, I didn't get to cover all of your arguements, it is getting late and I must sleep for work tomorrow. I hope you can understand why we have been using this technique for so long, and why we think it is better. Try to see from our perspective and I am trying to look from yours. Goodnight! :greetings-waveyellow:
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Hunter

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Post Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:52 pm

Re: Plz Mirror back, sup sniper rifle, 9mm machine pistol ba

May I ask how long have you been playing SWAT 4 multiplayer? Are there any servers you would mention you played in?
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Accuser

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Post Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Plz Mirror back, sup sniper rifle, 9mm machine pistol ba

Mosquito wrote:
I know about that scanning method good. Doing that before mirroriring room, u get yourself shown to sus and to all danger in there blindly, while do not knowing what is waiting 4 you behind the door, there can be a sus party waiting 4 u just to open the damn door to blow fire on you from everywhere, there can be civ near door, and already triggered sus, who will fire when door itself open, killing civs, failing mission, there can be..... all da fking bad things, which u can avoid just to getting damn room mirrored, thus getting info about what is in there, do not endangering to trigger all badness out there in same time and do not exposing yourself, and if there is bad situation, u can go from another door/direction or at least take more smart and knowlegefull decision, not blind. Scanning method provoking conflict situation, put all danger herebefore writted in action, so on, he, well, even just 1 damn placing(stacking) near door, i saw many times ets player taking stacking themselves blindly on 1 side of the door, opening door, boom, killed, cause of trigered sus blind fire from opposite side to side where officers placed themselves.. if room would be mirrored, they would took another side, and would be alive and sound on door opening.. u are .. damn, i cant believe u are do not getting what i am saying,..... "elite" ugu.., dead in reality in seconds. Damn, u also CAN NOT see all with scan also, cause u restricted to possible officer view, to walls, corner so on, when with tool u can see much more not showing yourself to threat. I damn got 1 day my part of a team killed cause of that fking blind scan, cause they scanned good, no other way to scan from other direction to that room was possible without again place yourself on blind scan/enter, it looked clear, guys was pro, but their vision as officers was restricted physically to as human (player) FOV, to see more and far officer need move in da room, so expose himself, so get hit/killed, thats what happened, they came in room, died in sec cause of ambush there in blind for officer FOV spots, when with mirror we would 4 sure shave seen that, and would for sure avoid that. I WOULD NEVER SEND THEM there, if i have mirror and saw all in there, i would go from other directions, so on. Without mirror u are blind as mole, scanning is 1) restricted to officer view 2) provoke/trigger all bad behind the door on opening/seeing officer by sus there.

Why da hell we should blindly as damn moles go in hell and endanger every1/everything if it IS damn 21 century, different technological tools exist to easy and smarten your life? Or u want to feel yourself being in 11 century and put in there all other? Is it goal of ETS? Then change then also guns on bow and arrows, swords, and go gallop on horse on sus..

Scan should be ADDITION to mirror, if leader decide provoke/trigger conflict by doing that, but not sole mean.

And again, if some leader do not want/like/so on using mirror and prefer to be blind mole, have his/her/it info about the innerness(insideness) of the room cut by FOV of the officers, prefer endanger his team and civs and mission so on by blindly opening door not having info what is behind it, he can just not take it(mirror) 4 the team, or do not use it while in game, why the hell ban it 4 all other (more smarter, more caring 4 teammembers health and lives and no bad surprise wanting leaders)? ....

Not talking about at all stupidity "do not lean".. common? Are u specially trying to do as much danger to me and team in there? We damn HUGE DAMN TARGET over there if we go full body, u show most part of your body to threat, and in most cases if more then 1 sus are there and they react on u, u are problematic to fast hide back to cover while being full body, u need more time 4 that instead of lean, so u got hit/killed.. When lean - u are small target there, much less of your body exposed, and u can at once/instantly hide yourself back to cover.
And so on ets "elite" tactic (that like mostly will get u harmed/killed)..

Really, guys, i dont see in that mirror removing and full body exposing to threat nor any tactical smartness, nor advance, nor special forces realistic tactic, nor at all sensibleness. U only do us go back to era of dinosaurus by technology and by mental process doing that, and remove all smartness and common sensibleness...

About guns - again do not understand why u remove some lethal weapons? If u solely do not like some guns and prefer instead of, 4 example, .45 pistol 9 mm pistol, why u ban that .45 for all other? It is like "i like chocolate icecream, not vanilla, so i ban all vanilla 4 all." ...
...


Okay so alot to talk about from this quote here, first of all you state that the scanning technique is good so why give an essay on the bad things then you practically wasted time on this issue, another point to point out is that with saying this does this mean you know the scanning technique then cause if you know then you should know that members go back to original spot and deploy nades if necessary if there is a blind spot then usually a bang would go in just for a precaution. However Judging from this above I dont believe you know the maps well, hence our regulars should know the possible layout of where the sus and civ are usually spawned.

Now you mention 'ets members' going in and also saying that they get killed instantly well there are a few possible reasons as to why and they are that possibly the sus has a faster reaction time than the player officer, there are possible suspects that can shoot from the hip, I know this for a fact cause ive seen many players die from this including my self, or the fact that when entry the nade did not affect the suspect hence the suspect being alert and possibly shooting at the player officer alot quicker, Or an unexpected event occured making a suspect run into a room/hallway and shooting players.

You also mention about stacking only one side along those lines, are you saying that stacking two sides is a great idea? also to that point why is two sides a good idea, two sides should only be used for a specific reason, the idea of one side makes it easier for leaders to organise teams, now it can be a struggle leading one big team but if they organise it can be beneficial because this allows the leader and other possible admins in game to watch those new players that might attempt to 'rambo' or such. It also allows the leader to control the team easier.

I would disagree that 'Scan should be ADDITONAL to mirror' simply because of my reasons above. Using the Optiwand I said before provides limited range and view and Scanning just takes like a few seconds to do, whilst using the Optiwand it takes a few seconds to deploy and it can be a bit glitchy/buggy sometimes.

Leaning is another thing why I know for a fact you do not know very well. We dont lean simply because within the game it cause a bug that along the lines suspects can see you through the walls and leaning is not practical in our server anyways.

So make sure you follow what we do and I guarantee that it will change your view trust me

Thats it from me for now
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Fireline

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Post Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:56 pm

Re: Plz Mirror back, sup sniper rifle, 9mm machine pistol ba

Although my opinion and words won't be much different from what has already been said, I'd still like to share my opinion on this. ( Oh god, here he is again.. Yes yes, I know ;) )

1. As said before, the optiwand slows down the game and by that I mean, it slows it down by a lot. You always mention 'Realism' which I deeply respect, but your vision of realism seems to differ from the reality. The only way I'd see an optiwand as an option, is on the main entry. Here I'll correct myself instantly and say, yes maybe in some circumstances it would render useful too. Although mirroring every door and corner is far from realistic as well. Once a swat team enters a house, they stay mobile and move fast. What's the point of blowing through the main entry and then taking your time to mirror the next door(s)? (By that time they could've gotten a far more superior position than before, which sometimes is actually the case, believe it or not).

2. The more time you spend on mirroring doors, the more time suspects will have to react to your raid. Your whole team's covering your area so you can mirror the room, but in the end YOU'll be the only person who gets to see the situation. Not to forget, who says they haven't moved after you look away? I really see little advantage in bringing an optiwand to be honest. Officers are trained to adapt to the situation.

3. Not a valid or realism concerned statement either, but most good leaders (or not so good leaders, according to you) have a rough idea of the positioning of suspects and civilians. An optiwand would only confirm the thought and ruin the immersion in my opinion.

Overall: Once the main entry has passed, there's no time to slack. Speed kills, so move fast and expect the unexpected. The game also limits the amount of realism, but I don't find using an optiwand and wedging every door to be realistic either (This is your vision and my opinion about it). The game's old so don't blame it for not being accurate to modern days.

Further things I want to mention: There is a very good reason why we stack at one side of the door and the issue lies with the game itself, not the tactics that are being applied. Stack at the opposite side and you'll find yourself shot before the door has even properly opened yet. Stacking on the opposite side of the door handle will result in immediate exposure of yourself, in cases of fast entries and quick reactions this won't cause any trouble. But try reacting to a suspect that just instantly headshots you before anyone could even react.

As I'm not a huge fan of the scanning method myself, I do find it very effective in the game. The scan offers a better overview than an optiwand, no discussion there. The leaning feature was only useful in swat 3, where you could actually move while leaning and you wouldn't lean out so far to the sides. Not to mention the bug that can be triggered that basically ruins the whole round for you and your teammates.

Briefly mentioning the guns: Sniper rifle, big no-no. This is nowhere useful in any case, the accuracy is horrible and the rate of fire is even worse. Very few times you'll find yourself in the need of one, because everything is somewhat close quarters based. The pistol, nope.. I don't feel like seeing people spray their whole magazine to just kill one suspect, pistols used by special forces are usually semi-automatic anyways.

As I'm sure some of you will agree and disagree with things I've said, always feel free to quote and reply!

- Fireline
If you see the woman with the shotgun, kill him! ~ |ETS|TaskForce141
<<

Mosquito

Guest

Posts: 10

Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:55 pm

Post Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:54 am

Re: Plz Mirror back, sup sniper rifle, 9mm machine pistol ba

Accuser wrote:
Mosquito wrote:
I know about that scanning method good. Doing that before mirroriring room, u get yourself shown to sus and to all danger in there blindly, while do not knowing what is waiting 4 you behind the door, there can be a sus party waiting 4 u just to open the damn door to blow fire on you from everywhere, there can be civ near door, and already triggered sus, who will fire when door itself open, killing civs, failing mission, there can be..... all da fking bad things, which u can avoid just to getting damn room mirrored, thus getting info about what is in there, do not endangering to trigger all badness out there in same time and do not exposing yourself, and if there is bad situation, u can go from another door/direction or at least take more smart and knowlegefull decision, not blind. Scanning method provoking conflict situation, put all danger herebefore writted in action, so on, he, well, even just 1 damn placing(stacking) near door, i saw many times ets player taking stacking themselves blindly on 1 side of the door, opening door, boom, killed, cause of trigered sus blind fire from opposite side to side where officers placed themselves.. if room would be mirrored, they would took another side, and would be alive and sound on door opening.. u are .. damn, i cant believe u are do not getting what i am saying,..... "elite" ugu.., dead in reality in seconds. Damn, u also CAN NOT see all with scan also, cause u restricted to possible officer view, to walls, corner so on, when with tool u can see much more not showing yourself to threat. I damn got 1 day my part of a team killed cause of that fking blind scan, cause they scanned good, no other way to scan from other direction to that room was possible without again place yourself on blind scan/enter, it looked clear, guys was pro, but their vision as officers was restricted physically to as human (player) FOV, to see more and far officer need move in da room, so expose himself, so get hit/killed, thats what happened, they came in room, died in sec cause of ambush there in blind for officer FOV spots, when with mirror we would 4 sure shave seen that, and would for sure avoid that. I WOULD NEVER SEND THEM there, if i have mirror and saw all in there, i would go from other directions, so on. Without mirror u are blind as mole, scanning is 1) restricted to officer view 2) provoke/trigger all bad behind the door on opening/seeing officer by sus there.

Why da hell we should blindly as damn moles go in hell and endanger every1/everything if it IS damn 21 century, different technological tools exist to easy and smarten your life? Or u want to feel yourself being in 11 century and put in there all other? Is it goal of ETS? Then change then also guns on bow and arrows, swords, and go gallop on horse on sus..

Scan should be ADDITION to mirror, if leader decide provoke/trigger conflict by doing that, but not sole mean.

And again, if some leader do not want/like/so on using mirror and prefer to be blind mole, have his/her/it info about the innerness(insideness) of the room cut by FOV of the officers, prefer endanger his team and civs and mission so on by blindly opening door not having info what is behind it, he can just not take it(mirror) 4 the team, or do not use it while in game, why the hell ban it 4 all other (more smarter, more caring 4 teammembers health and lives and no bad surprise wanting leaders)? ....

Not talking about at all stupidity "do not lean".. common? Are u specially trying to do as much danger to me and team in there? We damn HUGE DAMN TARGET over there if we go full body, u show most part of your body to threat, and in most cases if more then 1 sus are there and they react on u, u are problematic to fast hide back to cover while being full body, u need more time 4 that instead of lean, so u got hit/killed.. When lean - u are small target there, much less of your body exposed, and u can at once/instantly hide yourself back to cover.
And so on ets "elite" tactic (that like mostly will get u harmed/killed)..

Really, guys, i dont see in that mirror removing and full body exposing to threat nor any tactical smartness, nor advance, nor special forces realistic tactic, nor at all sensibleness. U only do us go back to era of dinosaurus by technology and by mental process doing that, and remove all smartness and common sensibleness...

About guns - again do not understand why u remove some lethal weapons? If u solely do not like some guns and prefer instead of, 4 example, .45 pistol 9 mm pistol, why u ban that .45 for all other? It is like "i like chocolate icecream, not vanilla, so i ban all vanilla 4 all." ...
...


Okay so alot to talk about from this quote here, first of all you state that the scanning technique is good so why give an essay on the bad things then you practically wasted time on this issue, another point to point out is that with saying this does this mean you know the scanning technique then cause if you know then you should know that members go back to original spot and deploy nades if necessary if there is a blind spot then usually a bang would go in just for a precaution. However Judging from this above I dont believe you know the maps well, hence our regulars should know the possible layout of where the sus and civ are usually spawned.

Now you mention 'ets members' going in and also saying that they get killed instantly well there are a few possible reasons as to why and they are that possibly the sus has a faster reaction time than the player officer, there are possible suspects that can shoot from the hip, I know this for a fact cause ive seen many players die from this including my self, or the fact that when entry the nade did not affect the suspect hence the suspect being alert and possibly shooting at the player officer alot quicker, Or an unexpected event occured making a suspect run into a room/hallway and shooting players.

You also mention about stacking only one side along those lines, are you saying that stacking two sides is a great idea? also to that point why is two sides a good idea, two sides should only be used for a specific reason, the idea of one side makes it easier for leaders to organise teams, now it can be a struggle leading one big team but if they organise it can be beneficial because this allows the leader and other possible admins in game to watch those new players that might attempt to 'rambo' or such. It also allows the leader to control the team easier.

I would disagree that 'Scan should be ADDITONAL to mirror' simply because of my reasons above. Using the Optiwand I said before provides limited range and view and Scanning just takes like a few seconds to do, whilst using the Optiwand it takes a few seconds to deploy and it can be a bit glitchy/buggy sometimes.

Leaning is another thing why I know for a fact you do not know very well. We dont lean simply because within the game it cause a bug that along the lines suspects can see you through the walls and leaning is not practical in our server anyways.

So make sure you follow what we do and I guarantee that it will change your view trust me

Thats it from me for now


1.
go back to original spot and deploy nades if necessary if there is a blind spot then usually a bang would go in just for a precaution. However Judging from this above I dont believe you know the maps well, hence our regulars should know the possible layout of where the sus and civ are usually spawned.


a) They would already be dead if triggered sus was behind the door and they were on his fire line, cause they scanning, that mean they do not know threat placement behind the door and at all about threat.

b) They just physically could have no time to go back, cause there can be few sus in different location, who will shot, and as u do not use lean tactic, u are relative slow to go back to safety.

c) In some maps, when i have few players, not many, i prefer to take wedges instead of grenades, cause i always try to do 1 way corridor to sus while clearing map, so no threat and no sus and no runners would be from our back, flanks, no threat, only sus would be in expected area - ahead our way. In that tactic also no rear guy needed, so more units and eys/guns available. I wedge every not cleared back, side door while proceed, so 1 way path is created, 1 way corridor and thus i clear room by room, being safe and my team safe from surprise. In reality, u all "elite" would already be dead, cause real guys would flank u, back u while ui proceed, and 1 your rear guy do not save u from a lot of threat from back, from flank, from front. And wedges are real, i had few. But in reality only 1 sided wedge is useful, cause wedge just cant be placed under door, cause doors do good, and doors in reality opens in 1 direction only, cause it need to block itself on somethinf=g to close itself. Just see on your door structure u understand what i mean. And wedges in reality are practical, they really block door, there are different types of them, for inner side and outside opens doors. In reality to open door wedged from other side, u need a mighty explosive or other power, cause of physical action that wedge act on door opening, in any case, it will take spec tools, time, and loudness.
Addition to that, if map is not small, we have to count grenades and left/save few for further more harder rooms, so with not huge quantity of players we can not just grenade every room. And more addition to that and to next d) paragraph - fking flashbangs and stings are damn loud, so after it use, all nearby party of sus will go to that position, as in reality, as in game, that, instead of u, I do not want.

d) i hate bangs, cause i experienced them in reality as while my military time as cadet in military institution, as in civil life. It is like big petarda, nothing more. Yes, it can do effect on new amators in small rooms, but on more open spaces and on experienced terrorists/perpetrators so on it will do only next - it will say them that some1 after them and give them so needed sec to prepare their guns for u to be shoot, and u, so blindly "ets elitally" hoping that flashbang have managed all your problems, go cheerfully in room just to be killed...
In game it also take only few sec to effect and it doesnt cover big area, not going to all spots, as gas do, so u need exactly know where to shoot them, and how powerfull so on, 1 mistake, and u going in room hopefully that bang acted, and boom, surprise, fire on u.

And as in reality, as in game it is fking loud, it will say to all near sus that u are here and that it is time to shoot u in there, and in reality, your not quiet entering will start hostage killing by sus, that is why Russian special forses use integrally supressed guns or special suppressed ammunition, only exclusive to them (AS VAL and it special 9x39mm SP5 and SP6 cartridge, OTs-38 Stechkin silent revolver / OTS silent pistol and it special silent 7.62×42mm SP-4 cartridge). West hand special and silent weaponary sucks.

e) "u dont know maps well" - I am Mosquito, i am 1 of the good/best players on swat4 in COOP if judge depends on swat4stats.com https://swat4stats.com/player/2017/Mosq ... /overview/, and it is when i am having/had a time break in game for some time so on, letting other to go ahead, and I always play with lethal, when other use pepper ball and other less lethal toys fking sht, which easy the game to unbeyound level (same time unrealistic it same way) and thus allowing highest score, thus placing them in top by score, because this game (because this game rules are unrealistic and stupid, and programming, shooting points so on are unrealistic and stupid, and AI is unrealistic and stupid, and much much more things. All da fking game is unrealistic and stupid, but we dont have another like that but smarter and more realistic 1, so we stuck with that unrealistic stupid sht) because this game do not give any points for sus authorized neutralizing (i am n1 in that depends on swat4stats scoreboard) and give only few 4 incap sus, cause that fking game created for fking unrealistic less lethal pepper ball/ll shotgun/tazer/bangs other ll sht.
Playing with lethal guns with the goal to not do penalties and/or receive good score is much more harder then play with less lethal sht toys.., u all know that. If all were playing with lethal only, i suppose i would be on top or in top 5 (in which i usually am after my appear to game even when other use pepper ball sht and other ll sht, when i am always lethal and even after my time break out of the game time to time) of the score with same play time. And players, who have played with me for a while, usually, they appreciate my leading skills and usually are safe and sound under my lead, if they strictly obey my orders and are ok with guns, and that is no matter of hardness of the map, and we do maps with no or almost no penalties. Of course, i am no ideal, i also have my mistakes, but most of time i am ok, when other, who play with me a while, call me very good in swat4. So don't say me i am noob or so on.

f) "u dont know maps well" - i know that swat4 game is total stupid unrealistic stupid uinrealistic sht, ... but we dont have another like that but smarter and more realistic 1 game, so we stuck with that sht, but even in that way, i do not want to play full gamingly (well, i do partially, cause if play full realistic in that swat4, it is no challenge, bots are stupid, and u just kill everything on side, cause in reality u do not wait until they aim u or civs, u shoot 1st, u have upper hand over sus, not they on u, time 4 negotiations was before swat enter..), i want to play close to reality, but with gamish elements, just to have challenge and some score so on. So i do not intend to learn where they scriptedly stay or move so on (which i also know), i do not get pleasure in that, i go like i would go in reality, of course taking understoodness that it is stupid unrealistic game with same stupid unrealistic AI. ...
Actually, some example, u know the A-Bomb map, there is stage and 2nd floor room windows which looks/enter to that stage room. So, i 've observed how many ETS players would play that from blue start.. they would all crowded themselves near that door that lead to stage, maybe scan or at once "bang and clear" and all crowed in that stage then. Yes, i know that they do not shoot and do not react on players who is on stage from above that 2nd floor room, but anyway i do not go to stage before that 2nd floor room is cleared and wedged, cause in reality go in stage room before 2nd floor cleared is the stupidest decision of all available, cause u have to cover 1) stage spots, 2) 2 front doors lead to stage, 3) 1 of other of 4 doors, 4) 2nd floor windows, AND WHILE THAT, u almost do not have cover on stage, while guys from above have, they would shoot u all like targets in shooting range.. and, as most of u (except Colombo) do not cover your back and flanks, do not wedge those doors behind and sided, u would be anus backed and flanked too. And in game too, cause some sus can run away from stage, go all way back to u, enter from 1 of not wedged by u doors and shoot u. And your "rear guy" do not save u from few sus from few backed sided doors, actually, i 've observed your rear guy ))) it is another story.. He will watch back maybe 30% of time, maybe, all other time he will be turning to u, observing u, and for sure he will be looking your way when u will be doing action.. When, 4 example, when I play rear guy role, then I even follow u by my back to u, front to rear, all of the time, but again,. as most of u do not wedge doors, even being good with guns, it is hard 4 me to cover your backs from few crossroads or so on, not talking that if cover properly u, i should shoot that sus on sight, doing penalty..
In that A-Bomb from blue start i would wedge all behind / sides doors, went to 2nd floor at 1st then, smartly clear it, then wedge door that lead to bar, then place 1 team (say it alpha) (1 of them grenadier there would be, 1 cover) near those windows, switch my and team beta cameras on theirs, thus viewing that stage from their cams, moved to 1 of door down that lead to stage, ordered alpha grenadier from 2nd floor use grenades, and then, with beta team moved in that stage room, while being under cover from 2nd floor alpha team, deal with sus there and block doors, holding sus on aim, then waited 4 beta team to follow us and cuff them.

Honestly to say, most of your "elite" ETS (Endanger Teammember Safeness) guys tactic, except of few players 1s (Colombo is good from what i saw so far, at least he uses wedges thus safering his back and flanks, he worry about his team safeness), is might be good for stupid unrealistic swat4 AI, but in reality u would all be dead in sec with that "elite" tactic of yours.
Your fast and furious strategy is maybe good for small 1-2-3 room place, but when place are not small, carefulness and smartness and quietness that is priority, not your "bang and clear".
Addition to that, sus can be triggered, run away, so on, bugs, so on, and your expected script where u expect them to be only do u and your team dead.

2.
Now you mention 'ets members' going in and also saying that they get killed instantly well there are a few possible reasons as to why and they are that possibly the sus has a faster reaction time than the player officer, there are possible suspects that can shoot from the hip, I know this for a fact cause ive seen many players die from this including my self, or the fact that when entry the nade did not affect the suspect hence the suspect being alert and possibly shooting at the player officer alot quicker, Or an unexpected event occured making a suspect run into a room/hallway and shooting players.


It happened cause they we do not have full info of the threats in room, cause scan in limited to player FOV, when with mirror we are not so limited, we can see fully and farther. If we had mirror, we would wedge that door and approached to that threat from other safe 4 my team direction, so on.

3.
You also mention about stacking only one side along those lines, are you saying that stacking two sides is a great idea? also to that point why is two sides a good idea, two sides should only be used for a specific reason, the idea of one side makes it easier for leaders to organise teams, now it can be a struggle leading one big team but if they organise it can be beneficial because this allows the leader and other possible admins in game to watch those new players that might attempt to 'rambo' or such. It also allows the leader to control the team easier.


Read carefully plz, what i ve written. I do not want to repeat. I have not wriiten about stacking both sides, it is in most cases stupidity and friendly fire (when in some other it is ok or good, depends), i ve written, that without mirroring the room, u do not know where threat behind that door is located, so u place your units blindly on door side/front, thus, if triggered sus is just opposite direction to your placed units, it will shoot on door opening, harming/killing your units, if room would be mirrored, u (dont know about u), me 4 sure would place them from other, safer side.

4.
I would disagree that 'Scan should be ADDITONAL to mirror' simply because of my reasons above. Using the Optiwand I said before provides limited range and view and Scanning just takes like a few seconds to do, whilst using the Optiwand it takes a few seconds to deploy and it can be a bit glitchy/buggy sometimes.


Your reason, on my strong opinion, are stupid and not convincing, and are wrong. And vice versa, it is FOV of scanning players are limited, not mirror 1. Mirror 1 also limited, but from walls and other cover objects, but anyway it allow much more vision, then FOV of scanning player.
Time of Scan, and time of mirroring it depends of who scan and who mirror, who have microfone and TS, so on. If amator without microphone - it will take time, if pro with microphone, it will be fast. I would prefer spend few additional sec by get full available info about area behind door/corner by mirroring before endangerly show myself/my tema, 4 which safe and soundness i am responsible, and, instead of u, "elite ets" i want them be as safe and smart as possible, not just send them directly to unknown threat without proper preparation to act on that threat and not relay blindly on those fking loud flashbang so on, or even on their skills. I suppose ETS can translate itself as Endangering Teammembers Safeness....

5.
Leaning is another thing why I know for a fact you do not know very well. We dont lean simply because within the game it cause a bug that along the lines suspects can see you through the walls and leaning is not practical in our server anyways.


I ve played a lot, it triger when they facing your direction. More to that, if u decide to showyorself, then u anyway decided to .. show yourself to room with sus, so it is better to do not full body threaten, but more small exposure, with possibility to instantly go back to cover, 4 which full body showing requere relatively more time, and everysec/microsec is lifedepending there..



I find all your reasons to remove mirror from server unreasonable and just .. not smart (gently written..).

And again and again - if some leader do not like and do not want use miror while his game, he/she/it can just not take it 4 the team, what problem? And if some 1 took it no matter that leader said not to, went rogue, so on, u know how to deal with those rogue elements.. So i do not see problem in backing(returning) mirror to the server... U can play anyway u want as a leader, using it or not, it up to leader decision. Why remove it 4 all? ... It(mirror) availableness gives more tactical smartness to game, so on. But if some leader do not want to use it, then he just do not take it 4 the team, no problem... But other leader, who was chose leader, so every1 ok with him leading, would be able play more smart and safe 4 his team by using mirror.
I see no problem with backing(returning) mirror to the server. Server have strong leadership rules on the server, deal good with rogue teammembers who do not follow orders, u have choosing/voting possibility to apply leaders, so what is problem? If u want to choose leader who prefer scan - then choose him as leader, if others players prefer to be safe and sound and play more smarter, then they would choose another leader, who would be using mirror, giving it to the best and the most fast user/wielder of it, so on, no problem see..

...

I just want to play more smart and have my team and me more safe.

Thanks.
Last edited by Mosquito on Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:17 pm, edited 27 times in total.
<<

Mosquito

Guest

Posts: 10

Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:55 pm

Post Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:30 am

Re: Plz Mirror back, sup sniper rifle, 9mm machine pistol ba

Fireline wrote:Although my opinion and words won't be much different from what has already been said, I'd still like to share my opinion on this. ( Oh god, here he is again.. Yes yes, I know ;) )

1. As said before, the optiwand slows down the game and by that I mean, it slows it down by a lot. You always mention 'Realism' which I deeply respect, but your vision of realism seems to differ from the reality. The only way I'd see an optiwand as an option, is on the main entry. Here I'll correct myself instantly and say, yes maybe in some circumstances it would render useful too. Although mirroring every door and corner is far from realistic as well. Once a swat team enters a house, they stay mobile and move fast. What's the point of blowing through the main entry and then taking your time to mirror the next door(s)? (By that time they could've gotten a far more superior position than before, which sometimes is actually the case, believe it or not).

2. The more time you spend on mirroring doors, the more time suspects will have to react to your raid. Your whole team's covering your area so you can mirror the room, but in the end YOU'll be the only person who gets to see the situation. Not to forget, who says they haven't moved after you look away? I really see little advantage in bringing an optiwand to be honest. Officers are trained to adapt to the situation.

3. Not a valid or realism concerned statement either, but most good leaders (or not so good leaders, according to you) have a rough idea of the positioning of suspects and civilians. An optiwand would only confirm the thought and ruin the immersion in my opinion.

Overall: Once the main entry has passed, there's no time to slack. Speed kills, so move fast and expect the unexpected. The game also limits the amount of realism, but I don't find using an optiwand and wedging every door to be realistic either (This is your vision and my opinion about it). The game's old so don't blame it for not being accurate to modern days.

Further things I want to mention: There is a very good reason why we stack at one side of the door and the issue lies with the game itself, not the tactics that are being applied. Stack at the opposite side and you'll find yourself shot before the door has even properly opened yet. Stacking on the opposite side of the door handle will result in immediate exposure of yourself, in cases of fast entries and quick reactions this won't cause any trouble. But try reacting to a suspect that just instantly headshots you before anyone could even react.

As I'm not a huge fan of the scanning method myself, I do find it very effective in the game. The scan offers a better overview than an optiwand, no discussion there. The leaning feature was only useful in swat 3, where you could actually move while leaning and you wouldn't lean out so far to the sides. Not to mention the bug that can be triggered that basically ruins the whole round for you and your teammates.

Briefly mentioning the guns: Sniper rifle, big no-no. This is nowhere useful in any case, the accuracy is horrible and the rate of fire is even worse. Very few times you'll find yourself in the need of one, because everything is somewhat close quarters based. The pistol, nope.. I don't feel like seeing people spray their whole magazine to just kill one suspect, pistols used by special forces are usually semi-automatic anyways.

As I'm sure some of you will agree and disagree with things I've said, always feel free to quote and reply!

- Fireline


At 1st, as it is for now, i like your and Colombo way of playing/leading in swat4 the most from other ETS players i 've played so far.

About your written:

1.
mirroring every door and corner is far from realistic as well. Once a swat team enters a house, they stay mobile and move fast. What's the point of blowing through the main entry and then taking your time to mirror the next door(s)? (By that time they could've gotten a far more superior position than before, which sometimes is actually the case, believe it or not).
2. The more time you spend on mirroring doors, the more time suspects will have to react to your raid. Your whole team's covering your area so you can mirror the room, but in the end YOU'll be the only person who gets to see the situation. Not to forget, who says they haven't moved after you look away? I really see little advantage in bringing an optiwand to be honest. Officers are trained to adapt to the situation.


Have i written about mirroring every room? No.

I prefer safeness of my team and me and having tactical information about threat behind the door/corner, thus more smarter and safe approach to that threat, having upper hand over them by knowing where they placed, how many of them, what kind so on, OVER fast furious rush, which just get most of your team killed/harmed.
Fast and furious strategy is maybe good for small 1-2-3 roomed place, but when place are not small, carefulness and smartness and quietness that is priority, not your "bang and clear", which only gather all other sus to you, get hostages killed, bomb detonate, so on.

And Negative. They do not react on you when u mirror, cause, instead of scan, u do not show yourself to threat behind the door/corner.

About threat from back, sides - it is most ETS players who rush over all doors like crazy stupid squirrels, not wedging doors behind/sides of them, if talking about me, I usually wedge my back and sides while proccedeng further, so no surprise threat would be from there, no rear guys needed, and more guns/eyes/players available on front threat.

2.
3. Not a valid or realism concerned statement either, but most good leaders (or not so good leaders, according to you) have a rough idea of the positioning of suspects and civilians. An optiwand would only confirm the thought and ruin the immersion in my opinion.


I ve written about that case to guy in my message above that 1. Read it, plz.
Addition to that, not every time all sus appear in same spot, it can depends on some things, not mention about runners/trigered sus, bugs, civs who is on the way, so on. No matter of that, i want to play the game close to reality, and clear as i would go in reality, of course with gamish elements like shoot only when they aim, so on, and taking in consideration, that it is stupid unrealistic game, stupid unrealistic AI, so on, i 've also written about all that in message just before/above that 1.

3.
About other parts of your writtings, the answer 4 them also is in message just before/above that 1.

4.
ABOUT GUNS, again - if u, 4 example do not like 9mm pistol, and prefer .45 pistol, why ban it (9mm pistol) 4 all other? Other may prefer 9mm over .45, so on, some 1 is good with m4, another suck with it and stuck to MP5.. ...

It is not unrealistic Less Lethal sht, it is all lethal weapons.

Player preference to the gun depends on his/her/it wieldeness/skillfulness with it. Why remove m4 for all, if u don't like it, 4 example?
Yes, i agree, suppressed sniper is slow on fire, so on, but, 4 example, i am good with it, i like it power, and in same time suppressed sound, also range is good, so on, and when case go to more then 1 sus or in close space, i switch then to 9mm machine pistol, that has full fast auto mode, same as single. So that is good combo. Some slow on fire single fire range weapon combine with full auto fast rate of fire close combat 1. Of course, m4 is better then sniper, faster, so on, but again, just for weapons diversity, more fun, more another tactic, more power/less power so on, suppressed sound, even if it is has no deal to game and only for player pleasure, open/close spaces, different other cases and scenario and purposes so on the diversity/variety of guns and exist. With that "i like vanilla icecream, not chocolate, no all other, so i bann all other not vanilla icercreams 4 all" u can ban all except admin weapons preference, 4 example left only mp5 smg and 9mm pistol.., and ban all other, and what it then would be? ...
This is not about that 1 gun is better then another, all guns in swat4 sucks, if be honest, but some 1 just like and prefer and good is with 1 gun, then with other gun, or just want to use some other guns 4 variety, so on. It is all lethal guns, not less lethal sht, so why ban lethal guns? And leader can assign certain gun to player, if needed, or say do not take 1, or at 1st ask with which gun every1 good and then ask them take certain gun. Why ban lethal guns? ...

I understand though less lethal sht removing, and is thankfull 4 that, it is real total bulsht as in game, as in reality, that sht really should be removed, but lethal guns.. they are ok and just depends on player wieldiness with them and likeness. If some1 dies every time with m4, then he/she/it will just switch to other more good 4 him/her/it gun, with which he/she/it is ok. That is why (and not 'cause of that but in other purposes and so on) weapons variety and exist.

Ok, good luck to good guys.
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GenuineJellyfish

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Post Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:22 pm

Re: Plz Mirror back, sup sniper rifle, 9mm machine pistol ba

Mosquito wrote:In some maps, when i have few players, not many, i prefer to take wedges instead of grenades, cause i always try to do 1 way corridor to sus while clearing map, so no threat and no sus and no runners would be from our back, flanks, no threat, only sus would be in expected area - ahead our way. In that tactic also no rear guy needed.

Yes, many players, and not just ETS take wedges when there are less players. That seems obvious doesn't it? However, you can not always say with 100% certainty that you do not need a rear guard. On some maps (mostly customs), there are too many doors to wedge for 1-4 people, and besides, believing that you do not need to cover your back in a building where suspects are free to roam around is foolish. That's not my opinion, that's a fact. You speak of 'realism' a lot. You don't believe that a real suspect could break/shoot through a wedged door?

Mosquito wrote:And more addition to that and to next d) paragraph - fking flashbangs and stings are damn loud, so after it use, all nearby party of sus will go to that position, as in reality, as in game, that, instead of u, I do not want.

In reality yes, the entire building will hear a flashbang going off, and even might think it is gunfire. But, this is not reality. If this were to be reality, a SWAT team would enter the building from multiple angles with bangs hopefully the situation will be over in minutes, as the SWAT teams rush to clear the building ASAP. Unless they decided to enter quietly, more on that later.

Mosquito wrote:i hate bangs, cause i experienced them in reality as while my military time as cadet in military institution, as in civil life. It is like big petarda, nothing more. Yes, it can do effect on new amateurs in small rooms, but on more open spaces and on experienced terrorists/perpetrators so on it will do only next - it will say them that some1 after them and give them so needed sec to prepare their guns for u to be shoot, and u, so blindly "ets elitally" hoping that flashbang have managed all your problems, go cheerfully in room just to be killed...

Again, you talk about realism. Yes, in real life, flashbangs have a small, rather significant purpose - Suprise. In well-lit areas they do not 'blind' a suspect, but they disorient them. They simply make a loud bang, in order for the swat team to enter while the suspects are dazed and suprised - the SWAT team gets the upper hand. After that, bangs are no longer useful, as the suspects in the building now know there is a rescue team coming. In the game - flashbangs have a constant effect, blinding and stunning. Suspects do not get a "sec to prepare their guns", they can't DO anything! And it allows suspects to be restrained. So how could you possibly say we "so blindly "ets elitally" hope flashbangs have managed all your problems," - BECAUSE THEY DON'T. If a suspect in a room was not effected, we deal with them as we always have. With reasonable force.

Mosquito wrote:your not quiet entering will start hostage killing by sus, that is why Russian special forses use integrally supressed guns or special suppressed ammunition, only exclusive to them (AS VAL and it special 9x39mm SP5 and SP6 cartridge, OTs-38 Stechkin silent revolver / OTS silent pistol and it special silent 7.62×42mm SP-4 cartridge). West hand special and silent weaponary sucks.

Okay... where to begin. Firstly, if you have been a Cadet, like you have said. You would know that 'silenced' weapons do not exist. No gun is 'silent', only supressed, all guns make noise and will not be silent inside a building with other suspects. Secondly, why would a SWAT team bring supressed weapons to a situation like A-Bomb, where suspects are already killing civilians and bringing a supressed weapon would reduce the velocity of the rounds you fire, making them less effective? Or a map like the Hospital, where a news reporter gave away the whole entry? Lastly, if a suspect happens to see a SWAT member, or his finger was on the trigger when he was shot, who's to say that he couldn't get a shot off? He would alert the whole building to his friends and the "silent" approach would be lost.

Mosquito wrote:Actually, some example, u know the A-Bomb map, there is stage and 2nd floor room windows which looks/enter to that stage room. So, i 've observed how many ETS players would play that from blue start.. they would all crowded themselves near that door that lead to stage, maybe scan or at once "bang and clear" and all crowed in that stage then.

Don't know who you've been playing with, almost every A-Bomb game I've played, the stage door was wedged and we proceeded left upstairs. Seeing as you say "many ETS players", I want to make another point. We do not tell our members how to complete a mission. There is no set path to complete a mission, there is Mission Complete and Mission Failed. Whether you want to take the easy way or the hard way, it does not matter. In SWAT4, suspects do not shoot down "like a shooting range" from the second floor. So some decide to take the stage first.

Mosquito wrote:as most of u (except Colombo) do not cover your back and flanks, He will watch back maybe 30% of time, maybe, all other time he will be turning to u, observing u, and for sure he will be looking your way when u will be doing action.. it is hard 4 me to cover your backs from few crossroads or so on, not talking that if cover properly u, i should shoot that sus on sight, doing penalty..

Then if somebody is covering your back 30% of the time. They are not doing their job. That's like a coverman only throwing grenades 30% of the time when asked. That doesn't make sense. And yes, when an order like "Bang And Clear" is done, the rearguard will turn towards the door after the bang to join the team. We do that so the rearguard is not stuck in a room by himself and if a suspect comes from behind within that 1.5 second timeframe. Bad luck. That's why we love SWAT4. Also, if you see the suspect from the rear, why shoot on sight? Challenge him first, the team will hear it and if he aims then shoot. Obvious... no penalty there...

Mosquito wrote:Addition to that, sus can be triggered, run away, so on, bugs, so on, and your expected script where u expect them to be only do u and your team dead.

Nobody expects a suspect to do anything. There is no script, you are just rambling now. Stay on point.

Mosquito wrote:Your reason, on my strong opinion, are stupid and not convincing, and are wrong --- "elite ets" I suppose ETS can translate itself as Endangering Teammembers Safeness.... --- u all "elite" would already be dead --- so blindly "ets elitally" --- that "elite" tactic of yours --- most of your "elite" ETS (Endanger Teammember Safeness) guys tactic

Cut that out. That's extremely disrespectful and for you to say that to a community that has been building it's tactics since 2012 is beyond childish and self-centred. Maybe you should try and run a clan for yourself where every member gets their own free optiwand and wedges. Not nice is it?

EDIT: If you cannot debate without insulting others then you may as well just remove the topic, it is not productive and nobody wants to share their opinion if they will be called "stupid" or have their own clan ridiculed on their own clan website.
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