High Risk Entry - Habermehl system

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i tried it twice yesterday ( morning , evning ) i can say it is very awsome ^^ where u guys find good idea like that ? xD
1- at morning i watched the video twice , there r more videos about that after the first video finish , after that i joined the mod , played some rounds with chlarmi and fire , i liked it ! they gived me more instruction , and i start play normal ! not perfect of course :oops: .
any new player can learn it , it is not very easy to learn but it needs patient from u and from who teaching u xD !
2- TaskForce , Single player full of bugs yes i agree with u , but when u join a server u won t find any bug i am sorry lol.

good job guys , swat4 will never die with this good , new , perfect ideas :D
ETS For Ever .
Kind regards ^^
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1.2.3 viva L'algerie .
I like this new tactical because this new tactical is more realistic , just like the real SWAT team . I hope I can try this if I have more spare time . ;)
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This strategy make me play better for clearing room in normal ets strategy.... so this strategy very usefull who want to play in realism simulation swat... like swat game...
So the point is this strategy Very usefull and recommended but for advance skill.....
Hey there,

just read through the posts and wanted to share my thoughts in response to the first post by Fireline.

First of all i want to say, that all CQB entry techniques, including the Habermehl-system, can be combined with the playstyle of ETS.
You should see them more as an addition to the current tactics in use.
It sounds like there is a choice that have to be made between "old" (or "dead", like you called them in another post) and "new" tactics. I can't agree with that.

Nothing against the current tactics but they’re simply too repetitive, boring and slow. These tactics would bring new life to the game,
they simply make much more sense.

We are talking about fixed procedures of room clearing. I honestly can't think of anything more repetitive...
Yes, it is a nice change for now, but it will get repetitive too once you adopt it. So that argument doesn't hold up.


These tactics also get rid of the problem of deciding who will lead. [...] Bigger teams are also a possibility now, that’s why the teamwork is very important.

I can virtually see the guys with mask, BSG and stingers rushing around on the ETS server 8-)
But seriously, Teamwork can work quite well, but only with experienced players.


These are also way more based on teamwork, giving any person in #4 and up a job to do, unlike now.

Then you did not fully understand the current tactics of ETS. Of course, everyone has a task in the team. And sometimes it is "just" Covering. You always have to cover hallways, doors and windows, while others prepare the breachings (keyword: Area of Responsibility). Often double entries are performed where everyone gets actively involved (and yes, this often could be done quickly if everyone would pay proper attention).


Here follows the problem though, in order to make these tactics more realistic and way more effective, is to start using the Sherrif’s Special Forces Mod (SSF Mod 3.2). [...] these tactics can also be used in the vanilla game but they’ll be a little more tricky because of the lack of equipment and simply how the vanilla game works

Can you explain that more detailed? Why CQB entry techniques will only work with SSF mod?
Although one can easily install the SSF 3.2 mod besides default game, the mod has main focus on singleplayer. It will make the game much easier (short version: AI reacts slower, you have more armor, suspects make less damage). So if you want a mod, i dont think SSF mod is a good choice, also it is not in development anymore (las update in 2008).


Don't get me wrong, its always good to think outside the box and try new ideas. But also keep in mind not everyone here wants a hard-core realistic Swat simulation. I think ETS found a very satisfactory middle way of realism and fun.

Here is some material about entry techniques from this thread.
- How SWAT Teams Work
- The Principles of CQB
- www.cqb-team.com

Finally let me cite http://www.cqb-team.com:
"There are no fail safe entry techniques. There are many correct ways to perform entries, but all techniques have pros and cons."

Greetings
"Um...Just one more thing..."
Columbo wrote:
Hey there,

just read through the posts and wanted to share my thoughts in response to the first post by Fireline.

First of all i want to say, that all CQB entry techniques, including the Habermehl-system, can be combined with the playstyle of ETS.
You should see them more as an addition to the current tactics in use.
It sounds like there is a choice that have to be made between "old" (or "dead", like you called them in another post) and "new" tactics. I can't agree with that.

Nothing against the current tactics but they’re simply too repetitive, boring and slow. These tactics would bring new life to the game,
they simply make much more sense.

We are talking about fixed procedures of room clearing. I honestly can't think of anything more repetitive...
Yes, it is a nice change for now, but it will get repetitive too once you adopt it. So that argument doesn't hold up.


These tactics also get rid of the problem of deciding who will lead. [...] Bigger teams are also a possibility now, that’s why the teamwork is very important.

I can virtually see the guys with mask, BSG and stingers rushing around on the ETS server 8-)
But seriously, Teamwork can work quite well, but only with experienced players.


These are also way more based on teamwork, giving any person in #4 and up a job to do, unlike now.

Then you did not fully understand the current tactics of ETS. Of course, everyone has a task in the team. And sometimes it is "just" Covering. You always have to cover hallways, doors and windows, while others prepare the breachings (keyword: Area of Responsibility). Often double entries are performed where everyone gets actively involved (and yes, this often could be done quickly if everyone would pay proper attention).


Here follows the problem though, in order to make these tactics more realistic and way more effective, is to start using the Sherrif’s Special Forces Mod (SSF Mod 3.2). [...] these tactics can also be used in the vanilla game but they’ll be a little more tricky because of the lack of equipment and simply how the vanilla game works

Can you explain that more detailed? Why CQB entry techniques will only work with SSF mod?
Although one can easily install the SSF 3.2 mod besides default game, the mod has main focus on singleplayer. It will make the game much easier (short version: AI reacts slower, you have more armor, suspects make less damage). So if you want a mod, i dont think SSF mod is a good choice, also it is not in development anymore (las update in 2008).


Don't get me wrong, its always good to think outside the box and try new ideas. But also keep in mind not everyone here wants a hard-core realistic Swat simulation. I think ETS found a very satisfactory middle way of realism and fun.

Here is some material about entry techniques from this thread.
- How SWAT Teams Work
- The Principles of CQB
- www.cqb-team.com

Finally let me cite http://www.cqb-team.com:
"There are no fail safe entry techniques. There are many correct ways to perform entries, but all techniques have pros and cons."

Greetings


Hey there Columbo, this is quite a surprise.. Not a pleasant one to be fully honest with you. I take your post more as personal criticism instead of feedback about the whole point.

I wouldn't call the Habermehl system 'an addition' of the current tactics.. For instance the classic 'scan', this is the most unrealistic tactic that's being currently used. Of course it's effective and a way to get rid of using an optiwand. But let's be completely honest, how stupid does it look for one officer to walk half a circle around a door to see what's inside?
Leader asking for grenades to be thrown exactly where you'd want them, because you know the lay-out of the map out of your head.
Leader asking for C2 where it'll be most effective and not injure a civilian in the process, because you know the lay-out out of your head... I can go on and on here..

I've used the current tactics for over 6 years and they're only becoming too repetitive for my likings just now.. I don't see myself playing this game 6 years from now.
"I can virtually see the guys with mask, BSG and stingers rushing around on the ETS server" They'll be dealt with the same way as we currently do.

Columbo, not to give myself a pat on the back here but I don't think you need to teach me one bit about the (ETS) Tactics nor accuse me of not understanding them..
Obviously everyone has a task in the team, even above #4.. But not everyone is doing so, you'd see a pointman looking around more than your rear guard(s)...

I never implied that the tactics would only work for the SSF mod, I clearly said that they're just more effective and realistic when using the mod. You suggest us moving to the Remake mod that basically kills every computer that's aged? I personally don't think that's a better plan.

I'm being a little harsh here but this was only a proposition. I'm not forcing anyone to take part in this, not even you.
But I can assure you that a good few people already enjoyed these little sessions we held.
I find the game only enjoyable when people actually use their brain and know what they do, I've come to a point where I've taught way too many people to still have patience to tell a person to cover a certain area. I expect experienced players to join in, so that the 'hard-core realistic swat gamers' can enjoy their time.
The AI in the vanilla game just tends to react stupidly fast, which results in anger for people. The fact that simple objects can block a whole flashbang from affecting a certain target, giving you zero response time to take out the suspect when needed, just doesn't work for me.

~ Fireline
If you see the woman with the shotgun, kill him! ~ |ETS|TaskForce141
Hey, nice to see this post in here, im totally surprised to face the fact that you guys try to bring "Professional" influence to the ETS Servers.

I wonder what discussion has started here after this post, its interesting to see that the fire is still burning - I personally have gone thru alot of schools, i did train with reallife operators within the Swat game and i did train with just experienced players, to develop "Skill". The Habermehl stuff has been influenced already the gameplay since years for now as i meantioned it was allso used by VOWS clan and some other peoples. Players like DTKreten, Duffman, HellSpawN developed allso years ago a leaderless gameplay based on the Habermehl system with teamwork and comunication with only ingame commands wich worked well..

I were lucky to meet recently some guys they started to teach me in this, peoples like : Marcks, Dmit, Alex wich are allso connected with Bandit and some old VOWS clan peoples - i totally enjoyed the style of gameplay as it looks fresh and effective.
I started to offer Chlarmi the first time to be in a session to try out those tactics - somehow it looks he liked it, i am proud to be the guy who is continuing the School and i Hoooar all my Masters, especially Bull5eye :)

The discussion about Tactics has been done zillion times and there are lots a different ideas and ways to solve a situation, i did wrote miles of textwalls in our forums back in the days - today im tired of this because only a bunch of peoples really want to develop them self and i learned how to sort em out ..

I think its good to revive the wave with trainingsessions, organized or not to develop "yourself" and some Buddys as professional operators to reach next levels in effectiveness and teamwork, as you said - teamwork is very important but even this brings some missunderstanings on the way wich needs to be solved. If peoples dont like this way of gameplay or have some troubles with learning new things etc etc, no need to convince dem, peoples will follow or not, i think its a good way to give everyone their own freedom of gamestyle - and dont force peoples on server to play like this.. if u have "pros" go ahead, if u have "newbs" play normal and check if they are ready for the next steps..


On the ITS Team, we do train frequently together to develop our self as operators and tweaking the teamwork, its all about the Hard Training with your Element buddys to realize a well working Element with the right timing ..
but thats a lot of work as Pong already mentioned.

I personally dislike the idea to play allways the same tactic, the same way through map, the same way to enter rooms etc etc - this is boring indeed - so why not starting to go experimental and try out new things as example leaning on a door to check if sus is inside ?! Might be a not common way to check but i can easy spare time for a small single room without scan etc etc and lots of other things wich can be tryed.


@Taskforce - The idea of the Habermehl system is like : Lead gives direction / Doors / Hallways - Pointman choose the right movement, after order is done, Lead is back in charge to give again a direction then pointman continues ..
allso the point man should be ALLWAYS a operator with the most experience.. in that case lower experienced players can take other positions as they want to start learning while watching closely.

"Every option needs to find a logical application, otherwise it's bullshit." Instructor Zero
Jedi apprentice - Sir, they've surrounded us...
Jedi master - ...Good.
I have to say I completely agree with columbo here. I also think it's great to think outside of the box. But too much realism in swat would take away the fun for me. I think we have a great mixture of tactical realism as well as playing for points. I have been playing swat for many years too and tried tons of different playstyles. Yet none of the other clans has found such a great mix as ets in my opinion. I too get boored of swat4 time after time, when that hapens i usually take a break for couple of months and then back in action.

I understand the frustration of knowing were all suspects are and such. It becomes lame and booring when a group of experienced players are on. More the reason to go custom maps if so be. Not many here knows all the custom maps in out and in. (Few exceptions bandit,columbo.....:D) i do not think those high risk entries would benefit us in any way like columbo said I belive it is a good change for a bit, but it would prove to be less effective and fun after a while. I do not like the idea of promoting vows tactics into our training sessions since their tactics does not fit our usual type of playstyle.

Nothing is stopping any if you to enjoy these kind of tactics though. Hell I encourage you to try this out it would will be a fun twist for some of us.
If i were a dog and you were a flower, i'd lift up my leg and give you a shower
Nah, its not personal in any way Fireline. You just reading things between the lines that aren't there. Also i don't want to suggest any mod.

I would like to do some rounds with you and other members. But I would not like to see that becoming the public ETS style of playing.
Of course that decision is up to the ETS members. I just wanted to give my oppinion, my feedback. Thats not appreciated, okay, although the quote stated otherwise. :?
Any feedback would be much appreciated.
My mistake.

I dont want to teach you anything Fireline.
I just gave general material for everyone, to show different CQB entry tactics. To show that these tactics are partly applied already.

So, some of the arguments simply do not hold up for me, sorry. Thats not accusing you. Its discussing. Correct me if i got something wrong.

For instance the classic 'scan', this is the most unrealistic tactic that's being currently used. Of course it's effective and a way to get rid of using an optiwand. But let's be completely honest, how stupid does it look for one officer to walk half a circle around a door to see what's inside?
Take a look at that material once. Notice the point "Cornering" in the "The Principles of CQB" source.
Clearly "Scan" IS a valid tactical procedure and IS NOT unrealistic per se. Also known as "Angular search" or "Slicing the pie". The video explains it for use at windows.



Leader asking for grenades to be thrown exactly where you'd want them, because you know the lay-out of the map out of your head.
Leader asking for C2 where it'll be most effective and not injure a civilian in the process, because you know the lay-out out of your head...
How that "new" system does effect the way bangs are used!? ... you will still know the maps and still know where you have to place grenades. :?

I can go on and on here..
Okay, you still did not explain what fundamental equipment the vanilla game is lacking, that gets available with Sheriff's Special Forces mod.

"I can virtually see the guys with mask, BSG and stingers rushing around on the ETS server" They'll be dealt with the same way as we currently do.
Well, thats something i don't get. Without leader you will always have dynamic equipment and formation or not? So, as example, lets say... taking 5x pepperspray is a valid option and will not violate any rules, does it? Also during gameplay there will be no clear direction. Everyone just stack at the nearest door...?
That sounds like a step backwards compared to the current playstyle.

I expect experienced players to join in, so that the 'hard-core realistic swat gamers' can enjoy their time.
Yes, thats a point i can totally agree with. Surely i don't want to force someone playing "this" or "that" way.

I think i understand your point there: you want a change, you want more realism and playing fluently with experienced players. I also enjoyed the SAS mod (not a suggestion, someone just mentioned the mod before) rounds we played in the past with some older ETS members.
But will it work out on a public server and with new players? I doubt it.


The AI in the vanilla game just tends to react stupidly fast, which results in anger for people. The fact that simple objects can block a whole flashbang from affecting a certain target, giving you zero response time to take out the suspect when needed [...]
Yeah the game has its flaws, that is as sure as eggs is eggs.


Well, to sum up briefly what i want to say:

Playing mod sessions with new tactics:
Yay
Make it new ETS playstyle:
Nay

Like i said, in my Opinion ETS found a well-balanced middle way of realism and fun. And you can explain stuff in a chat.

I always enjoyed the rounds we played together Fireline and so i will in the future. I know you are a skilled tactical player. I'm just not able to comprehent the view you have of the "old", in your mind "dead", playstyle. Because it is a very tactical way of playing and at least semi-realistic.
Please explain what does make the "new" playstyle so superior, besides being different?
Perhaps you can provide some convincing material or links for the upcoming guide you mentioned?

Greetings
"Um...Just one more thing..."
Okay... I want to mention something in general. I thought I clearly mentioned that this is my view of the current situation, if I did not make this clear than that'd be a big mistake on my part. Yes I'm criticising the current tactics, yes my statements may not make much sense to people here, I'm human after all, right?

Last weeks have been a little hectic and frustrating on my part. Not that you should care in any way or feel bad at all, it just creates a context for you guys to understand me a little bit better. The feeling I'm currently undergoing is not being appreciated for the amount of effort I'm putting into a clan that I'm not even a part of. I'm busting my ass off to to teach you guys anything there is to know, yet a thank you seems to be too much to ask for (this is not always the case, I'm very aware of that).

This was only intended as an announcement and even more as a proposition. People are asking for thought through statements and clarification. Guys... I have other duties to fulfill, I'll gladly explain everything once I have the time to do so. How the mod benefits more out of these tactics than the vanilla game, was not the point of this whole discussion. I can go on in endless discussions and I've been there many times, but it's not always the best thing to do. I still stand by my point of scanning being just unrealistic as can be, the way it's being used is nothing like the 'Slicing The Pie'. Scanning is currently being used to scan entireties of rooms, some being massive. My view, let's drop that though we'll agree to disagree. Mentioning that I'm trying to introduce the VOWS tactics is a very bald statement. These are the High Risk Entries, it's not something they put together by themselves, it's not owned by them. I thought it'd be more enjoyable for people to play as realistically is possible, but that doesn't seem to be the case in general, which is a shame because I thought that was the main appeal of the game, I do understand other visions though.

I do appreciate the feedback, it's not because I disagree, criticise back or say that I'm unpleased about the way some of you judge without having experienced or given it a chance, that I don't appreciate your effort to leave your opinion here. I've now experienced that some of you feel uneasy about change, which is perfectly normal. A lot of people tend to stick to what they already know, but it doesn't hurt to learn or try something new.

I'll be honest (I'm even becoming repetitive in using sentences) and say that I'm losing my desire to put all the effort into the ETS clan, while I choose to be only just a guest. I'm trying to do a favor here, yet I always get shit thrown at my face (Dramatically visualizing it). But I think I've learned a lesson in a way, maybe I'll just keep myself on the background for now on and leave my opinion(s) for myself.

~ Fireline
If you see the woman with the shotgun, kill him! ~ |ETS|TaskForce141
Guys you got us all wrong it seems

Fireline and me are not against ETS tactics,I have been a fan of ETS tactics since the first time I played on ETS server and I'm still a fan,don't get us wrong..

The problem with ETS game-style is it being unrealistic at some points,scanning for example,it is not realistic at all,have you ever seen an officer walking by a room and exposing him self to scan it? he will killed right away..So these tactics which Fireline and me trying to introduce to you came up with a better alternative which is the Hi-Low,it is pretty much the same but without exposing any officer to danger,and it is even used by real life SWAT teams.

-Throwing grenades in ETS style for example,the leader is used to tell where to throw the grenade(direction of the nade),why? because he knows where the suspects are,and he just tries to flash them so the officers just run and punch and arrest them ..So are we basically caring about getting a high score rather than trying to have a great tactical experience.So in these tactics Fireline and me introduced to you,we just bounce the grenade of the door or we throw it close by without knowing where the suspects are,and that is more challenging and fun in the same time.So where is the fun and challenge in knowing where the suspects are and trying to flash them?

Body blocking doors for example,it is also unrealistic,we are used to benefit from it just because of SWAT4's mechanisms,because the door can't be open inwards.Try to block a door in real life,the suspect will just open the door inwards and shoot you,or even tries to shoot through the door. So here in these tactics we talked about we just cover the door with the gun so there is no body blocking doors unless you were unintentionally standing in a door way,which is more realistic.

And concerning the leading issue you guys stated,we are not forced to adopt the Habermehl's leading system,we can keep our leading regiment the way it is.We are looking for realism but in a way that suits everybody.

So as a summary,this topic here is not to remove the ETS game-style and replace it with the Habermehl system..Our goal is to enhance the ETS game-style and make it better and both more fun and realistic in order to enrich our tactical experience on the server.
I haven't tried the mod at all yet, I just want to reply to a few things that caught my eye from this topic:
I think Fireline is taking Columbo's feedback personally for some reason, and I don't understand why.
(quoting) "'ll be honest (I'm even becoming repetitive in using sentences) and say that I'm losing my desire to put all the effort into the ETS clan, while I choose to be only just a guest. I'm trying to do a favor here, yet I always get shit thrown at my face (Dramatically visualizing it). But I think I've learned a lesson in a way, maybe I'll just keep myself on the background for now on and leave my opinion(s) for myself."

I really do not understand that sentence at all.If you are saying your suggestions as doing us a favor, I think you're seeing things the wrong way.If I were you, I'd see my suggestions as something that helps improve the swat 4 in general, not just ETS clan(but ets is swat 4 pretty much at the moment, so yeah.)

Regardless of what you are suggesting, SWAT 4 is a game, that has been developed many many years ago, and despite any changes you, or anyone for that matter suggests, it will never be a 100% realistic police simulation.But it's okay, because games don't have to be 100% realistic all the way, that's why the are called..games :P

Also I've encountered many times these words in your posts, Fireline, and I quote once again "I've used the current tactics for over 6 years and they're only becoming too repetitive for my likings just now.. I don't see myself playing this game 6 years from now." Sorry to say this, but that's...your opinion, one that I highly disagree, If I may say so.I'm not against trying new things, or learning a few new things that we MIGHT implement into our current tactics.There is a reason we are pretty much the only active clan remaining at the moment, and I'm thinking our tactics have something to do with that.

My bottom line is this: I , and I think every other clan member, and the clan in general appreciates your suggestions.I just find you over=enthousiastic for some reason, which is not bad in general, but the way you replied to some (obvious that anyone would ask, If I may say so, once again) questions Columbo asked, was not so "warm".
Fireline wrote:
We need change for SWAT 4 and we’re all aware of it.
Things are becoming too repetitive and simply boring, people are also way more inactive than usual.

That is where all the flak is coming from. The initial reading of this post is to believe that you wanted to change the current tactics in-place for ETS.
Now that we know that this is not the case, there is no need for arguement.

Fireline wrote:
The feeling I'm currently undergoing is not being appreciated for the amount of effort I'm putting into a clan that I'm not even a part of. I'm busting my ass off to to teach you guys anything there is to know, yet a thank you seems to be too much to ask for (this is not always the case, I'm very aware of that).
...
I'll be honest (I'm even becoming repetitive in using sentences) and say that I'm losing my desire to put all the effort into the ETS clan, while I choose to be only just a guest. I'm trying to do a favor here, yet I always get shit thrown at my face (Dramatically visualizing it).

I don't quite understand where this is coming from. I think pretty much everyone really appreciated the effort you have invested so far. The skins were a fantastic edition and the only real conflict has been from this particular post, where most people have not only strong attachments to the current system, but they (and myself) believe that the current system is the most effective. You made it appear that you wanted to remove this system, and like I said, that is not the case so the arguement is closed. I personally appreciate what you have done for us Fireline, thank you. ;)

As for the Habermehl system, I really enjoyed it when I played with you last, it was fresh, fun and a nice change from the usual. However, I believe that the current system we have is indeed more friendly to new-comers. So I will have to say that this will mostly be used with experienced players, like you said.
Image
As most of you might become surprised by me saying the following

Fireline wrote:
The feeling I'm currently undergoing is not being appreciated for the amount of effort I'm putting into a clan that I'm not even a part of. I'm busting my ass off to to teach you guys anything there is to know, yet a thank you seems to be too much to ask for (this is not always the case, I'm very aware of that).
...
I'll be honest (I'm even becoming repetitive in using sentences) and say that I'm losing my desire to put all the effort into the ETS clan, while I choose to be only just a guest. I'm trying to do a favor here, yet I always get shit thrown at my face (Dramatically visualizing it).

It really doesn't come out of nowhere, I've encountered a series of things that have bothered me along the way. This is something I won't make too public and it's not as bad as it may sound. Using text never brings a message the way you intend for it to be. Also Gas21, as I just stated in my last topic, it basically hasn't been my week and I do not believe we know each other in the slightest to judge each other's personality. Many of you probably would be surprised by my real personality compared to what is shown here, let's not go any further off topic here.

Please do not say something along the lines of: "it's just a game" I respect your play style, I like realism to the fullest extent and that's just how I enjoy my games. Also I never knew enthusiasm could be a bad thing, but all right, I'll keep it in mind.
If you see the woman with the shotgun, kill him! ~ |ETS|TaskForce141
The things Chlarmi mentioned in his post, i can mostly agree with.

So as a summary,this topic here is not to remove the ETS game-style and replace it with the Habermehl system..Our goal is to enhance the ETS game-style and make it better and both more fun and realistic in order to enrich our tactical experience on the server.
Well that sounds clearly different from what we read before.

Combine or implement new tactical approaches, that bring in more realism, is what i suggested in my first post. Thats something everyone can comprehent i think.
For example the Hi-Low technique, can be tested during regular rounds. If it works out it could be easily implemented. Why not?
Also the thing of blocking doors with your body. Thats indeed something that can be improved.
For this I liked the approach of blocking it once and then move away (did AST clan do it that way? not sure which clan used to do that). This way team members aren't suprised and get shot, but a suspect can enter the room. A good compromise i think.

The only thing im not comfortable with is "acting dumb", pretending you don't know the map. Because thats simply not the case.
I dont know your concept behind that idea. But i think something more flexible than "You are just allowed to drop one bang next to the door" is neccessary.

Greetings
"Um...Just one more thing..."
We have had discussions about the whole not blocking doors idea before. And the majority of our members do block doors for a good reason. We know it's unrealistic and all that. But we tend to prefer doing that when we need to explain something to another teammate. That is nothing a swat team would do in real life. To take a moment to stop and explain tactics to another person. Under those circumstances I would say it's fine to do so. But we should lean towards not blocking doors when this is not the case . I for example had times where I cover the door with my weapon and a
Another member and regulars still run too the door and block it. I think we need to work on that at least for a starter. Maybe you guys have simular experiences to bring up here.
If i were a dog and you were a flower, i'd lift up my leg and give you a shower

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